Boost Enthusiazm-Don't Kill It

Why or Why Not?

Published on February 12, 2005 By Lynx's Den In WinCustomize Talk

There have been alot of issues, brought up (continuosly), about certain aspects of the site (i know i have exspressed some myself).... Fair, unfair,, submissions, exception,rejection, abuse, ect..... And no matter what your stand or opinions are regarding these matters/issues, the bottom line is, it is happening, and everyone knows it. So you can hate me for this or not.... But either way, i have no intention what-so-ever to step on anyone's toes, or offend anyone, its just my opinion, and with the thought that bringing some of these issues to light, in a more civil manner. Maybe.... Just maybe, we can work together and get this thing fixed to the saticfation of everyone (always good to dream), but there is always hope! But take it as you want to.... (and excuse my possible spelling, I'm not perfect), Yet!!! LOL

Why- I find it a little irronic that when an issue is brought up, one of the things you will get as a responce is how great this site is, how there is alot more good here, more this and more that.... I think you have to consider some of the aspects of the site... #1, who is it run by (Basicly Stardock), #2 What are the main features of the site (Stardock Product), not to mention there aren't a whole lot of companies that put out the type of product Stardock does (Their Advantage).... And all the other sites that basicly have been considered as lesser (and some are), most if not all of their features are based around Stardock product. Example To Ponder: I (and i think most will agree), that sites like Deviantart/SkinBase, ect., have more freedom when it comes to their submission policy, and their rating system/submission exception, ect., is not souly based on the sites Admin's, but actually by its visitor's, subscriber's, & users, something WC may consider more of.... Does this make DeviantArt/SkinBase better or worse. It is easy for individuals to make a comment like that, when their reputation, time & efforts are not being trampled on (or considered to be), for whatever reasons....

Why Not- another responce that seems to be regular, when issues are expressed, is how issues should be brought up privately.... That an Admin should be emailed to try and resolve the problem.... This can send one message to the prospective readers, Hiding the problem/issue.... People get upset, when things are not the way they may think they should be (fair or unfair, whats right or wrong), and issues will be expressed regardless of who likes it or not. Does this mean, the individual expressing their dismay, has to pay for it, by either having there submission's denied, ratings trashed or abused by users who got offend.... "Open Your Mouth, And Pay The Price" Or "keep Your Mouth Shut And Continue To Feel Screwed and unappreciated" You do the math.... Another thing is how it seems to be ok for one individual to express there opinions/issues, but another has their opinion/issue obscured and critasized by the answering (offended) parties through-out their post.... Not to mention Admin's don't get to every email (or may choose not too, who knows), i know this by experience, i have emailed quite a few times with no responce what-so-ever, be it questions, help, or whatnot.... I know there is alot to concider for Admin's.... don't get me wrong, they have alot of things to tend too. But if your going to request individuals to take certain steps or actions, you should stand by your request...

Why- The good old "I'm not posting here anymore", "I'm Leaving".... and the responces mostly heard, "Fine, Sorry To See You Go" or "Issues Are No Reason To Leave" ( i know, been there a couple times myself, LOL).... Again, easy for someone to make comments like that, when your rep, work, & efforts are not being trampled on (or considered so).... Consider this.... Individuals take alot of pride in their time and efforts, and when all they see is negative, then feelings play a big part in decision making, be it right or wrong.... Enthusiazm is based on good responces (more good responces, more will want to be done).... and in turn causes the individual to thrive to be better, and in most cases (like myself), can handle constructive critisizm, and learn from bad critisizm instead of getting offended.... would you rather stay in a place that shows you to be worthy, or a place that shows you to be nothing (appreciated or a lack there of).... Or when you see individual getting more out of the site, like 3,4,5 feature posts every 2 weeks, on the feature page for 3,4, days at a time (don't think thats considered a daily shot anymore....LOL), and others lucky if they get one, and lucky to see it up for 24 hours.... Remember action speaks louder than words.... If your going to create a site that its base is compitition, which anyway you slice it, thats what this site is, it should be run fairly (for everyone), and anyone who happens to be afraid of a little compitition, shouldn't be here, if their main focus is to trash the efforts of potential compitition.... we focus more on what we see, not on what we hear.... Boost the enthusiazm, don't destroy it....

Bottom line: I think we all need to sit back, take a deep breath, and start making things better.... There will always be issues (what place doesn't have them), but i think together, we could start to make things a little better around here... Some of the issues aren't really that hard to fix (to kill the fire, get rid of the problem), if people are willing to do so.... For the site leaders, make things a little more fair for everyone, be it ratings, submission or whatnot (not your personal prefrence) let the general public deside, no one can tell or has some super-natrual power that tells them what people like and what they don't.... alot of novices, ametures, (or whatever) and even individuals just getting into the field, would like to be as good as the vets someday (otherwise they wouldn't be here).... But give them the opportunity, make us all want to be here, and contribute to the best of our abilities (and we will get better), and inturn give this site even more advantages then it may already have.... For the regs, and vets, share your knowledge, give constructive critisizm (all around), assist in making others better , you may not realize it, but the rewards will last for years to come.... Ever watch your kids do something, where you said or thought "I tought Them that" remember how that felt, and remember everyone has feelings, that can be steped on, think before you act (think how you would feel in the particular situations)... Ok a little of subject, but i think you get my point.

Lets try and all get along, and make this site something we all can be proud of (without all of us, this site wouldn't be much), instead of trashing each other for what they say or do.... feels like a battleground around here, all of us bunched in our little groups and taking shots at each other.... Thought this was a community!!! Like i said its all up to us, if we are willing to bend a little.... Boost The Enthusiazm, Don't Kill It!
Then again,(wonder who i'm going to pissoff next), i may be considered as talking outta my butt, and all this just fell on def ears, guess i'll know by the responces HUH? (not ready to give up on this place just yet....LOL) lets get over this hump already.....LOL feels like a pot-hole in the road, that no one wants to fix.... I got a shovel and asfault anyone want to help?.....

Comments (Page 1)

Sleeping Dragon

on Feb 12, 2005

My Mother always said that if you didn't like the way something was being handled, stick around and make it better.

Nice thread Lynx!

Lynx's Den

on Feb 12, 2005

This is true Dragon (wise woman),my mother was the same way.... but it also takes the effort of all, not just a select few, know what i mean.... whats the saying, "the few are always outdone by the many"

RN2004

on Feb 12, 2005

Very nicely done post.You demonstrate humility (even about your lack of spelling expertise )but your message is well thought out and sincere. I am not a skinner but just a regular person who loves the creativity and technical skill of those who submit their work on this site, which I have been visiting regularly for almost 2 years.
The truth I think is that this community represents a microcosm of society and as such the individual members display all the strengths and weaknesses of every other group of people.Sometimes we just need to cut each other a little slack.
I feel that your 'call' to encourage a spirit of cooperation and equity while affirming the intrinsic value of this community is a very legitimate and heartfelt one.
Perhaps each member needs to ask themselves what their personal objective is in being a part of this community. Is it produce art, enjoy art and creativity or is it for commercial gain or all of the above?.
A common agreed upon goal or objective may unite the members in a way that is truly worthy in terms of everyone's energy.
I for one have sometimes been dismayed at the degree of 'ego flaring' that has occurred in these forums and what seems as a closed 'elite' inner circle versus the 'masses'.
Yes, the veterans have earned, through years of hard work, a significant amount of respect and 'authority' as perhaps they should.Just let them remember that they were once neophytes and that they teach much more through modeling attitudes than what they type here.
To the admins and others who run this site my hat is off to you. You carry a huge amount of daily responsibility here and by and large you do it excellently.I know that you will use your power and authority as fairly as humanly possible.
I think too that if we express our opinions and even our differences in a way that still remains respectful of others, it stays a 'win-win' for everybody.
Just my thoughts. Thank you for listening

Jafo

on Feb 12, 2005

Lynx's Den ...one of the issues you mentioned was with regards to public airing of 'issues' vs private emailing. One of the things which 'helps' maintain reasonable peace and comfort for all is just this feature. Public airing gives the opportunity for every 'agenda' to exacerbate the issue. It's how trolling/flaming eventuates.

Just today there was a thread where 'concerns' also included linked examples of the perceived 'issue'.....a most unfortunate situation for the hapless innocent caught up in the crossfire.

Solution? The links were removed. Why? To prevent the resulting flame and public insult.

This private resolution is generally the only way things work painlessly for all.

No-one wants to be shown to be a fool in public for getting the wrong end of the stick in one issue or another.....it's less embarrassing for all if examples, etc are quoted/referenced in private.

When the issue is about ratings/fairness/elegibility of, etc .... don't forget that it would be doing EVERYONE a disservice if the site admins/moderators were to be excluded from the rating process....not when by and large they are the most experienced in the field of skinning - their opinions 'should' be valued more than a casual drive-by rater.

I'll use that same example I have used before.....ask anyone you like within the LiteSTEP community....would they prefer a rating/critique from a person who has used and skinned for Litestep for about 8 years and currently is running the shell...or perhaps some newbie who has NEVER digressed from Explorer in his/her life and looks at a pretty jpg of the GUI shell and says 'very nice' and rates it whatever average it currently had?

Would you give the latter responsibility for what does or does not appear on the site?

When someone passes judgement on any work/object/skin/wall/whatever ...you'd like to think it was from a position of competence/understanding.

Possibly a good example of rating good sense is within the 'screenshot' section...wher [through misfortune... ] I seem to be approving/moderating the lion's share. They almost never need to be viewed by more than one person before being deemed suitable or not....porn, etc is fairly easy to determine, etc. Being a skinner I see GUI layouts/compositions/styles daily.... possibly more so than the 'user-only' might...and can readily determine whether a collection of skins used in a screenshot makes for a good 'suite' or not...or whether it's hackneyed or predictable...and ratings mostly end up between about 5 and 8 ... but none is rejected for 'quality' as their prime function is aas a 'tool'...that may be being used by the uploader to show to another person/skinner a specific detail.

What I find amusing though is the person who misses this fact and rates the screenshot as if it were a failed work of art.....I have one of those now...it has 3 ratings of '1' ... which is about as silly as ratings ever get. I'd be just as happy if it were rated '10' or '0' ....means nothing...as long as it can be linked-to to show the people concerned what it meant.

Now I know you guys here have a microcosm of 'screenshot devotees' ... who take pleasure in comparing skin uses, etc....and that's just fine ... and I know most of them [I see the screenies and their comments] so if anything these are rated more carefully as you prefer to see them as an artform and not as the 'tool' of communication....

Anyway....I guess one thing to remember is that Wincustomize.com is 'huge'...in membership/visitors....and in reality if you rounded up all the nay-sayers and dissenters into one spot they are well and truly within the minority.

I even know of one 'highly placed' person who cannot fathom quite 'how' Wincustomize.com seems so tranquil compared to other sites...

Sleeping Dragon

on Feb 12, 2005

Well communicated, Jafo.

kith

on Feb 12, 2005

I am tired of getting along with everyone and helping make things better.... Why is it everytime someone gets their poor little feelings crushed they have to write essay on everything wrong with Wincustomize. And how come they always admit to offering opinion, but seem to speak for some wronged silent majority. Wanna make this site better, get rid of the forums!

HG_Eliminator

on Feb 12, 2005

well said jafo...

lynx WC is the calmest skinning site ive ever been privy to...heck we see maybe a flame once in a while ... other sites see flame wars daily...to air trash is not a good concept .. it would only bring fighting.....i have watched many sites destroy themselves by allowing flame fests to go unfettered ...privately is the most professional way to do things .... Example .. i see a skin that you post .. i think its a rip .. if i post it here and it is a rip you get blasted ... but what if it's not and i was mistaken?... now your name has been drug through the mud for no reason.. .. get it ?.. doing things privately not only keeps the fighting off the boards .. but also keeps mistakes from tarnishing reputations.......

Lantec

on Feb 12, 2005

?get rid of the forums??

If they bother you don't use them.

Sleeping Dragon

on Feb 12, 2005

Sir kith, why are you involved in something you don't like? That's like a person going to church and saying they don't believe in going to church.

Boss019

on Feb 12, 2005

I just luv a good story of the "little guys" fighting against the evil owners of capitalistic companies, taking away their "rights". Beats the hell out of watching soaps by a mile...We want fair and we want it now....life revolves around us

sigh...........

kith

on Feb 12, 2005

exactly!

Lynx's Den

on Feb 13, 2005

Yes very well put jafo, (like always...lol) there are some particulars in question that i would discuss with you (in Private) later if you have the time.... and HG i see some of your points too, and i left an admin position for similar reasons, as far as the reputation being drug through the mud, well thats already happened here, not to mention the individuals proceeded to other sites i may have been posting, and went and trash me there as well (so what do i really have to lose or gain), guess it doesn't always work.... if people are out for you. they will get you, one way or another, if its done privately or not.... and RN.... Humility???? Me? ha ha ha.... ok, like i said i have nothing to lose or gain, but thanks....LOL (that was good)....LOL, Oh and to my surprise, part of the "how was it put", "Closed Elite Inner Circle" with inflated egos.... wont even bother with a comment there, think their's proved a point (little groups taking shots at each other), and i'm sure it won't stop there will it.... besides my standard level is a little higher....LOL.... as far as the post. its basis was from seeing over and over everyweek threads on the same issues and maybe some suggestions on how to put an end to it, but its pretty clear that if everyone has no intentions on see things eye to eye or taking things into consideration (and you know who you are), then whats the point.... Lets go back to the thread "Enough is Enough" and see..... BTW.... Good one Dragon!
Thanks for the imput all!!!

Jafo

on Feb 13, 2005

there are some particulars in question that i would discuss with you (in Private)

No problem...whenever you need to...

BTW....'dragged', not 'drug'.... Spell checker

Lynx's Den

on Feb 13, 2005

Hey i grew up in the east coast (philly), cut me some slack......LMAO

Jafo

on Feb 13, 2005

'philly'...that's a cheese...

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!